Why does everyone hate kiki kannibal

What's hard about it, phaedon? This is it in a nutshell. They were in the best position to have solved all of this early on and they failed to do so. My wife and I have a 13 y. The second he began to compromise his safety or peace of mind with his online activities, he would find those activities severely restricted if not gone altogether.

It would not be as simple as that, perhaps, but compassionate, determined parents could exerted have their wills forcefully here and saved this girl a world of grief. As far as keeping something like this from happening again, are you asking me, do I think it's easier to end criminal mischief once and for all, or how about you stop letting your year old book modeling shoots and get the fuck offline?

I'm going to go with the latter and blame the parents. I admit I can't even bear to read the entire story, it disgusts me. Badger me at will. Jesus fucking Christ. The treatment of this girl is just awful. But her parents are fucking morons. If they cut it off after they had to move, I would have thought their initial permissiveness was due to naivete. But they not only let her continue, they let their fifteen-year-old daughter post videos of herself dancing in lingerie.

And they call it "cute. When Cathy reached out to Stickydrama's administrator and demanded the removal of the "MySpace Murder" item, the response infuriated her. Oh, I'm sorry. How dare they suggest her attention-seeking behavior is garnering attention! How dare they! Nobody should blame the victim.

But if you play with fire, burn your hand, and respond by throwing your arm in and adding a gallon of lighter fluid, you still do not deserve to get burned but you are an idiot. The Ostrengas were alarmed, but Cathy had heard enough about Danny's chaotic home life to make her feel sorry for him.

This mom seems some sort of combination of dumb and naive. I'm sure this Danny kid needed some sympathy. But letting him date your daughter? The big takeway here is that this girl's parents basically failed at being parents.

Indeed, consequences will never be the same. Well, there is a pretty good chance they were just overwhelmed. They had one autistic kid to homeschool and a girl with some severe social issues. It can be tough to tell the girl may be the one who needs the most attention and care at times. It's cliche, but this has cry for attention written all over it.

I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they had to move. If that's not a wake-up call that something about your parenting needs to change I don't know what is. She's an adult, not a little girl.

I question the story she has told the magazine as printed. She's an adult who claims she's being victimized anew each day because she has no choice but to go online to run her 'Kiki Kannibal' jewelry business: She boasts a Twitter, a Tumblr, a Buzznet, a YouTube channel, two websites — one of which sells her jewelry and apparel — and an AIM screen name, which she gives out freely. And, of course, there's her Stickam, where she continues to stream videos, now dressed more modestly.

Nationally respected news magazine do not illustrate their stories with multiple pictures of scantily-clad minors or punctuate their stories with phrases like Two months later, Kiki's rapist and first love was dead. This is pure tabloid trash. It's not news, it's True Crime.

There's a distinct absence of evidence in the Rolling Stone article. There are no photographs of the trashed house although you would think such photos would exist for insurance or evidence purposes, and that the family would retain digital copies or negatives. There is no explanation of whether a warrant was ever issued against this Danny Cespedes in relation to Kirsten Ostrenga. This might be because the law in Florida is complex, and the mere fact that Cespedes was over 18 does not necessarily mean he committed statutory rape even if he did have sex with Kirsten Ostrenga because she was under See Florida Code, Chapter sexual Battery.

Consent appears to be a valid defense in Florida where a minor is aged between 12 and I don't write the laws, so don't blame me if you don't like it. I'm not disputing anything in particular other than the cat thing that I already mentioned , but it's pretty obvious that the article tells the Ostrenga family's version of the story.

It would have been interesting to get more outside points of view. For example while I doubt Cespedes' family would say that he was a child rapist even if it's true, it would be interesting to hear their side of it, especially since the article goes out of its way to paint their entire family in a bad light.

Also I wonder how much of the willingness on the part of her parents to allow her to continue her online persona was based on the fact that apparently from the beginning they had encouraged her to use it as a way to make money as some sort of weird life they planned out for her. They basically set her up to skip having any sort of normal childhood start relying on the Internet to run a business as a career before she was Were they expecting her to become some sort of rich celebrity from all of this?

I already don't care. None of that is evidence, anigbrowl. Could I ask you to back down from this accusation. It's not going to go well, it will derail the thread, and you have not one shred of evidence for taking this particular discussion off the tracks with your highly dubious hunch, posted by Astro Zombie at PM on April 21, [ 3 favorites ].

I won't argue that Cespedes didn't have struggles of his own, but he systematically sought out 14 year old girls. He repeatedly raped Kiki. He was very clearly a predator. It doesn't surprise me that his family is in denial about that and trying to blame someone else.

The article pretty explicitly says that, at least the first time, she says she did not consent regardless of whether or not she was legally able to consent. What a remarkable nadir this thread has become. Well, I don't think the article really addresses the Cespedes family much at all beyond Danny.

And apparently the author of the article did attempt to interview them but instead talked to their lawyers and was told they had no comment. Just running in to thank Astro Zombie and Marisa for fighting the good fight in this thread.

Your comments give me hope. You're all missing the most important aspect of the story. Is this sympathetic portrayal of KK's anguish going to help or hurt her online jewelry business? Maybe a MeFi thread.

This won't be the last time a thread like this comes up, and maybe it would be better if we hash out some of the questions raised by this, instead of just lump this into the useless category of "stuff MetaFilter doesn't do well. MeTa, rather. It's not going to go well, it will derail the thread, and you have not one shred of evidence for taking this particular discussion off the tracks with your highly dubious hunch Let's be careful about this.

I don't see anywhere that anigbrowl is arguing that Kiki was not raped, which you probably understand, but talking about his "accusation" can lead people to thinking that. What anigbrow is saying is the information in this article is one-sided, unresearched, and sensationalistic.

It's pretty clear that it consists of an interview with Kiki and members of her family. Sorry that it's just a hunch on my part, but it doesn't sound like clear thought is really their strong suit. Not saying that anybody deserves anything, etc. There's not one shred of evidence for nearly anything in the article; asking for a little bit of evidence, hell, even multiple perspectives, is surely not the same thing as making an accusation in the absence of evidence?

Honest question: why? It's not a court of law, it's a MetaFilter thread. I see the veracity of articles questioned all the time here.

Astro Zombie : " Maybe a MeFi thread. Which is also why I've been holding back on asking for this to be deleted, too. I feel like any action I take here is going to give them more work to do.

Something I'd like to avoid. It's not going to go well, it will derail the thread, and you have not one shred of evidence for taking this particular discussion off the tracks with your highly dubious hunch. It seems to me that both you and Rolling Stone are the ones throwing accusations about without evidence; while the case never went to court due to Cespedes' flight and subsequent death, it does not follow that a conviction would have taken place.

That said, if he did have sex with Ostrenga, that would be lewd or lascivious battery , for which consent is not a defense. Awkwardly, the same statute would criminalize much of the breathlessly-reported Stickam exhibitionism, potentially making criminals of both Kirsten and her parents for different reasons.

None of this is meant to suggest that statutory rape is OK or is deserved. MY problem is with the exploitative and obviously biased nature of the story. Gosh - I feel stretched thin just posting on Metafilter.

How teenagers can maintain a gazillion friends over multiplie social platforms boggles my mind. I guess it boggles their minds too. At the end of the day - I just hope things settle down for KK and real world craziness die down. Fair enough. You sounded awfully close to recharacterizing this as a scheme by racists to invent a tale of sexual assault in order to damage an absent third party.

If that wasn't your intention, it wasn't your intention. But you do seem ti be well into the realm of doubting somebody who says they were sexually assaulted. That's a risky place to be, even if you don't like the reportage.

Not to mention it goes beyond statutory rape, by her account of what transpired the first time. It is impossible to rationally talk about subjects like this because the language used is so loaded. That said, I looked at the photos in the article, and I have no way of telling whether the person pictured is 14 or 19 or 23 without any other clues. She's a physically mature woman, biologically speaking, however much her mental dev needs to catch up to that--which is why we legally separate "statutory rape" from pedophilia.

Except we don't on the internet, where any sexual attraction to a sexually-mature person who is under the legal age of your local jurisdiction is pedophilia. Adults should be kept away from sexually mature but under-age teens, for all sorts of good reasons. But to throw words out like "little girl" or "pedophilia" irritates me because it makes the words meaningless in their true context, adults preying on pre-pubescent kids.

Plus "little girl" seems really patronizing. Calling herself "Kiki Kannibal," she began posting pictures of herself, highlighting her hairdo of the moment: a mullet that she'd layered, bleached and fluffed — think Ziggy Stardust — and then dyed with dark horizontal stripes. Who took these photos? They don't look like camera-timer self-portraits taken on a whim by a young girl.

The fact that someone would attach their real name to a comment like "Her boyfriend should have killed her after he raped her. Problem solved. Statuatory date rape was common in my high school. It's not all that shocking to me, sadly.

So I will leave all that. But spare me the bullshit of not making friends in 'the burbs'. My tween is doing just fine with no fucking webcam, social media accounts OR lingerie. Her parents sound lobotomized. It's too bad, really, she seems seemed? Someone needs to pull the plug on her router. Rolling Stone? We must be reading two different publications because the ones I get are full of sensationalist, subjective e. Can I borrow your copy? I don't think that she could have found a better publicist than the author of that RS article.

It's the copy with some of the best war reporting going on now. And that issues is.. It is impossible to rationally talk about subjects like this because the language used is so loaded Seems like hairsplitting. And most people in this thread didn't use the term pedophilia anyway. I will concede on the war subject. My tween is doing just fine You realize the flaw in your point here, right?

As others have said, there's so much going on here, so much The immediate thought that comes to my mind, however, is that if she is really being regarded as a "little girl" throughout this, her parents really needed to be facing charges of neglect or endangerment or something a long time ago. Posting pictures of your year-old self in lingerie?

Not smart. But forgivable. You're Looking at pictures of a girl in lingerie on the internet, who might be 14, or who might be 24, for all you know? You really need to taking a good fucking look at yourself.

Knowing that your year-old daughter is posting pics of herself in lingerie on the internet, not caring, thinking it's "cute", and encouraging it for, essentially, commercial purposes?

I'm pretty sure you need to face some consequences. I'm actually non-snarkily interested in the answer to this. I think i saw her on Stuff You Will Hate. Does Rolling Stone actually call her Most Hated? I don't recall that in the article, and people are taking issue with it and criticizing RS over it.

That seems to come from the Forbes piece. Based on my memories of being a naive female teenager, there is a solid chance that she had no idea people were doing things to themselves while they were watching her. Yes, even after the boyfriend. She insisted that the two kids stop seeing each other. But Danny kept coming back, telling the Ostrengas through tears that he couldn't spend another minute living with his mother.

Cathy and Scott decided he had worn out his welcome but couldn't seem to figure out how to kick him out. Part of being compassionate is learning how to set boundaries.

A better thing to do in that situation would have been to work with him to find appropriate community resources. If they had known that, they could have helped redirect some of her creative energy to IRL-based activities. I still don't think it's accurate, but it's not far off the mark.

My problem with the term is the abandon it is used when discussing teens. When I hear "pedophilia" I picture little kids, not physically mature people whose faculties haven't caught up to their bodies and who therefore still need protecting.

Being attracted to kids is unnatural. Being physically attracted to teens is natural; witness every movie which purports to take place in high school with an "R" rating for sexual themes. Still doesn't make it right for adults to have sex with the underage, though I'm sure that distinction will be lost on the pitchfork brigade. Perhaps "pedophilia" no longer means what I thought it meant.

Last summer a group of middle-aged friends and I were sitting having a snack when a lovely young woman walked confidently by in a nice summer dress, rocking her septum and lip piercings and her fairly cool upper-arm tatoo. After she passed we all kind of raised eyebrows at each other in that "ah, it's good to be alive" sort of way. Turns out she was sixteen I know this as I was later introduced to her by her father, an acquaintance. I think had she been walking around with a big "I'm sixteen" sign on, none of us would have given her a second glance, just because that isn't right or cool.

Are we all pedophiles for admiring her without that knowledge? Life imitating art perhaps. It's been four years since I watched television, yet the other day, I found some videos of Comedy Central's 'roasts' of famous celebrities on youtube. Specifically, the recent roast of Donald Trump. I was taken a back and watched for an hour, unable to unglue attention from the spectacle presented, famous celebrities attacking each other in ways that left the range of funny, surpassing humour into calcified animosity and just general meanness.

And there, I watched as a man who purports to run for President of the United States sat amongst a group of people who verbally abused each other.

What it provoked was the feeling that America is declining at such an accelerated rate, that chaos is erupting literally in every corner of the society. Reading this article about 'Kiki' was shocking, for the parents never acted upon their simple roles as parents and unplugged their child from the internet.

Rather, she was raped and continued to prostitute herself. Yet, they cheered her freedom of expression WTF? Has my country become so bereft of objectivity and intelligence that parents cheer the very enabler of their own daughter's demise? Upon reflection, I see something different. Parents that are so terrified to tell their daughter the truth -- that the values of freedom and expression -- are under such threat that they nearly have ceased to exist. Instead, they play into the vacant platitudes that afflict every poor person that votes Republican and every democrat that thinks there is the possibility to vote for change in a two-party system.

I spend most of my time watching the rise of China and the other 'developing' nations and always remember the adage of a mentor, "if you tell me someone has been empowered, please tell me who has been disempowered, for power itself is a finite quantity.

The country is now involved in three regional conflicts against poorly armed opponents and cannot execute a victory in any one theatre. Yet, rather than come together to solve the problems and create a sober and cohesive plan of action to ensure the very survival of the country, people are turning on each other and consuming each other. The entire country needs to sit down and accept that the American dream is dead, there is nothing unique about being American, that life is going to get harder because American colonialism is dead, and most importantly, that it is okay to be a normal citizen of the world.

We have an entire population of young people and old people screaming for relevance and uniqueness. People that have been raised on the very values that each individual is unique, capable of anything, and there are no boundaries.

But each individual is not unique, nor capable of everything, and there are indeed very rigid and painful boundaries in life. And this is a conversation that needs to happen on a national basis. As if Obama needs to sit everyone down and say, "things have changed, and now we must change to. That was fun. But now things are different. A society so codependent upon it's own mythology, that even when that mythology perverts into abusive roasts and bullying of raped teenagers, that each party is so happy to have attention and an identity within that myth, that nobody cares if that attention is mean, harmful and destructive.

If this is the news in the popular press and there nary a mention that the coming economic changes will make the credit crisis look like a bad night out, I don't know what to say for America. The enemy truly destroying America is itself -- and that is manifested in the inability of two parents to prevent their daughter from being raped in their own house.

And their further inability to man-up and deal with the truth. And it's not them that's the problem. The problem is us. And until we can be honest with ourselves and our children, it will not be surprising that they can be raped in our own homes and go back for more.

For we haven't taught them to value themselves on any higher plane than that of basic attention and functional recognition by other human beings as simple objects. Perhaps the new slogan should be, "No, actually, we can't. By all means allow yourself to retort. I've MetaTalked this. I was hoping someone else would do it, because I havn't been here very long, but this just isn't funny any more.

Don't blame me, I voted for nadir. He was testifying before Congress? The article states that this Chris Stone This would not apply as the report as stated by the article is of assult, not battery. Comedy roasts are an honored tradition with a storied past going back at least to the s, we have insufficient evidence to establish that they are a sign of chaos erupting literally in every corner of the society.

MetaFilter: An elaborate fiction designed to play on a particular set of prejudices. I don't know if I do. I'm not saying 'just because my child can make friends, anyone can'. I'm saying their whole family is so quick to blame, and they keep no accountability. I suspect she's not as socially stunted or deprived as people want to allow for all of this.

If I am way off, let me know. Roboto The very definition of the absence of responsible parenting. Trouble in the form of attacks from websites dedicated to teen gossip, romantic advances from pedophiles, and a pretty terrible Google footprint.

But how can parents know when to draw the line? I think it's pretty fucking obvious that reasonable parents would know to draw the line a ways behind 'letting their pubescent daughter post erotic strip teases online'.

Just as a datapoint, at age I would have had no clue either. I knew intellectually that masturbation existed, but it would never in a million years have occurred to me that it would have any connection to my actions. A pro-ana Stickam "celeb" notable mainly for having better hair than Jessi Slaughter? Rolling Stone was really hard up for material this month. It's ironic that this came out the same week ED was baleeted. This pool really is closed. It is my understanding that she was younger when events in her past occurred.

She was a teenager - presumably at the start, when she is referring to. It takes no suspension of disbelief to realize many girls that young don't understand adult male pedophilic behavior. She behaved irresponsibly. She was a kid. Her parents behaved irresponsibly. They're bad parents. Like many kids lacking in parental guidance, she sought attention from older, "cooler" kids This isn't a story of a scheming Delilah.

It's a little girl who played "adult" with the big, scary world, and got bitten. Now, with a history of bad decisions and poor upbringing, she's trying to move on Substitute "stripping and streetwalking" for "internet videos", and you've just described more teens than you can possibly imagine. Then they try to correct their mistakes by moving on to selling crack As she's chosen selling jewelry and more modest dress as her followup, I can't say this is the most dismal outcome I've heard of.

Geez, what a messed up story, from start to finish. No one comes out looking good, not her, not her parents, not the people around her. How much of that is the article's bias, and how much is reflecting the true story, I don't think we can know. You lose. This is why we can't have nice things. IAmBroom: It takes no suspension of disbelief to realize many girls that young don't understand adult male pedophilic behavior. Ardiril: " She is only one girl.

After reading the article and this thread the thing that sticks with me most is that it's sad when a child has truly inept or vile parents. I really didn't want to go to that guy's site to look up the actual police report in question, and frankly by that point I had given up on the reporter as far as terminology or specifics went. I figured the Florida statutes were the best place to look for the specifics though LL battery is only one possibility among several, there didn't seem to be a separate offense labelled LL assault - but I'm no expert on this.

IamBroom: It is my understanding that she was younger when events in her past occurred. I'm talking about her decision as an adult to be photographed and interviewed about the past events. The essence of my complaint is the exploitation of the story for profit.

I went into much more detail not graphic, philosophical about this in the MeTa thread, if you want to read that. Initially I thought the parents were mind-blowingly naive and wildly permissive Kiki did not bully you. YOU bullied Kiki. Kiki had to ban you from her Stickam, and you would continually harass her through your "friends" accounts. I am sure Stickam's records would convey that as well. Kiki actually felt bad for you when Stickydrama users were calling you a fat w h o r e during the SXSW, and when people were making fun of you for dancing on a stripper pole.

She also felt bad for you when your underage nudes were posted on Stickydrama. Kiki had nothing to do with any of that. You are transposing what others did to you onto to Kiki to further your bullying of her by spreading lies and soliciting hate.

I remember when you would go into Kiki's Stickam chats Kiki NEVER went into yours , and one day you would be nice to her and the next day you would be rude.

You had even apologized to Kiki for your mean, imbalanced behavior stating to her that you were bi-p0lar. You started being consistently mean to Kiki after Kiki made comments about John Hock and his underage girl habit. You were good internet "friends" with John, and you started attacking Kiki for her opinions. After she banned you from her room, it enraged you enough to continually harass her on and off over the years. This is not a wide-eyed-innocent mom who just really had no idea the sort of thing that her kid was involved in.

It sounds like she was as wrapped up in the whole scene at least as much as her daughter was. They're both popular one myspace. Kiki claims to be the "scene queen" who invented stripes, Hello kitty, bats, and all that stupid 'scene' stuff.

She made a name for herself online and now has a band of followers and a bigger band of haters. She sells jewelry on www. Some say that they're are photoshopped but she says that they are not. Audrey Kitching has been photographed with stripes in her hair a while ago and has clients who have stripes, yet Kannibal says she "brought back stripes.

A young girl who became famous on the internet for her unique style and is often compared to Audrey Kitching. HAtes the label Scene Queen and has never defined herself as such. She makes and sells her own jewelry and is teamed up with her sister Dakota Rose in a new venture KND Kouture to produce apparel. She was a featured artist at BOTDF live shows and is pursuing an acting and modeling career while attending college. Coined the term "Haters make me famous".

A gorgeous woman with a big heart. One that has the ability to cut deeply into your heart and soul if she is crossed or hurt intentionally. Join the New Times community and help support independent local journalism in Miami. Get the latest updates in news, food, music and culture, and receive special offers direct to your inbox.

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